Numismatik-Cafe

Hi John,

this morning I won a lot of celtic coins including this obol of Karlstein Type, which is from an old collection (Mr. Eugen Wankmüller) and possibly coin no. 2052 of H.-J. Kellner, Münzfunde von Manching (plate 52) and in this case from an hoard found at Karlstein in 1905:

http://www.wago-auktionen.de/losdetail.aspx?auktion=32&losnr=34&rid=3

In this case the weight of the coin is 0.455 g and the diameter is about 9 mm. The reverse is dished.

Best regards,
Stefan

PS: If anyone can show pictures of "type Karlsteiner Art" and can clarify the difference between "type Karlstein" and "type Karlsteiner Art" this would be much appreciated.

Hi Stefan,
congratulation to the success in the auction. Head of the horse seems to be better preserved on the coin 2052 published by Kellner, but maybe I'm wrong.
Best regards
Jan

Hi Jan,

many thanks for your message. I'm still hoping, that it is the same coin. Without being sure. The edge damage is the same. The centring is the same. Kellners photo is dark and small. The WAG photo was taken at light from an disadvantageous direction. I will have to see the ticket / envelope and the weight of the coin.

Best regards,
Stefan

PS: Several obols of type "Karlsteiner Art" are illustrated in:

Peter Kos, Ein "Schatzfundkomplex" norischen Kleinsilbers aus Celje. Jahrbuch für Numismatik und Geldgeschichte 26, 1976, 25-29.

http://www.academia.edu/361946/Ein_Schatzfundkomplex_norischen_Kleinsilbers_aus_Celje._In_Jahrbuch_fur_Numismatik_und_Geldgeschichte_26_1976_pp._25-29

http://www.bngev.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/1976-Band-XXVI.pdf

BNGeV = Bayerische Numismatische Gesellschaft e.V.

In an earlier thread, Harald pointed out the obols "type Karlsteiner Art" are less dished than those of "type Karlstein": http://www.numismatik-cafe.at/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3897

I still think that your coin fits nicely with the coins of "type Roseldorf II" / "typ Němčice/Roseldorf II".

Hi Jan,

now I have the coin with its old envelope in my hands and still believe it is No 2052 of Kellner (1990). Even the weight fits. I have not changed anything with the envelope - and there is noted 0.455 g. My elecronic balance shows 0.45 g (it is only exact up to 0.01 g).


As noted on the envelope, the coin is also the one illustrated in Rudolf Paulsen, Die Münzprägung der Boier (Leipzig & Wien 1933; Wien 1974), pl. 27, 625. On page 153 it is said that the coin formerly was in "Städtisches Museum, Reichenhall, Bayern". In 1990 it was in private hands, presumably legally.
Best regards,
Stefan

Hi Stefan,
congratulations once again, I think you're right and the coin comes from Karlstein hoard.
In the literature I noticed that the number of coins of this type comes from Slovakia (Bratislava).
See: Kolníková E., Norische Münzen im Oppidum Bratislava und in seinem Hinterland, Slovenská Numizmatika, 14, 1996, 9-57.
Greetings
Jan

Hi Jan,

many thanks for the reference of the article by Eva Kolniková. But than this coins should be atributed to the Boii, and not to Noricum?

Greetings,
Stefan

Hi Stefan,
it is very likely that these coins were minted in parallel in a number of mints. As far as I know they are presented mainly in Lower Austria (Oberleiserberg), Slovakia (Bratislava, Plavecke Podhradie) and oppida in Bohemia.
Best regards
Jan

Hi John,
according to
Bernhard Overbeck, Keltisches Münzwesen in Altbayern Jahresbericht der Stiftung Aventinum über die Jahre 1994–1995 Heft 9/10, 5-55.
the Karlstein site is also a mint site as coin pellet moulds have been found there.

Do you know if anyone has mapped the "Norican" small silver since:
Michael Mackensen, The State of Research on the 'Norican' Silver Coinage. World Archaeology, Vol. 6, No. 3, Currency (Feb., 1975), pp. 249-275. [p. 262, figure 3].
http://www.jstor.org/stable/124094 ?

Best regards,
Stefan

Hi Stefan,
unfortunately I have not seen such a mapping. It seems to me that the maps are i quite rare in the publications of celtic coins, perhaps because the fact, that situation is changing very quickly these days.
Best regards
Jan

Hi John,
I did not find any new maps of small silver coins of Noricum and the Boii either. One reason may be that provenance of coins are given only vaguely in recent publications, in order to protect the sites. I don't know the reason why several museums which still record coin finds don't publish them at all.
I keep my eyes open for new distribution maps of Norican an Boian obols. If I find a publication, I will post it here.

Best regards,
Stefan

PS: A very nice paper about the diribution of East Norican tetradrachms etc. is this one:

Tomislav Bilić, Coin circulation 3rd century BC - AD 193. In: In B. Migotti (ed.): The Archaeology of Roman Southern Pannonia, BAR IS 2393, Oxford 2012, 359-388.

http://www.academia.edu/1882671/Coin_Circulation_3rd_Century_BC_-_AD_193